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 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:03 pm
What is your opinion of this statement:
"The son of God suffered unto the death, not that men might not suffer, but that their sufferings might be like His"
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:31 pm
None of our sufferings will ever be like his. No matter what we do or what we feel, we won't be suffering for the sake of every single soul.
But I guess I can understand the sentiment that when we suffer, we should offer it up to God. I'm not sure that's what the statement means, though.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:48 pm
Jesus suffered in order to fulfill God's will. It was God's will that Jesus suffer for the sake of humanity. Despite their separateness, they are also one.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:54 pm
I don't quite see how those are separate. If Jesus suffered in order to fulfill God's will, it would follow that it was God's will that Jesus suffer for the sake of humanity.
One big difference between Jesus and ourselves is that Jesus chose to suffer to fulfill God's will. Our only choice, usually, is in how we bear our sufferings.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:06 pm
lymelady One big difference between Jesus and ourselves is that Jesus chose to suffer to fulfill God's will. Our only choice, usually, is in how we bear our sufferings. We do choose whether or not to fulfill the will of God. That's partly what our salvation is.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:20 pm
Takahashi_Natsumi lymelady One big difference between Jesus and ourselves is that Jesus chose to suffer to fulfill God's will. Our only choice, usually, is in how we bear our sufferings. We do choose whether or not to fulfill the will of God. That's partly what our salvation is. That's true, but it's not quite the same. For one thing, we don't always know what the will of God is beyond "Don't sin." For another, it doesn't always involve the same sort of suffering. And many times, when we're talking about suffering specifically, we don't have a choice. That little kid born into poverty in Africa really can't help that he's in pain and starving, and it would be very difficult for any human to see how that could be God's will even if it is. If it is, that child can't help but live that life. My mother did not choose to get polio. She chose not to kill herself to end the pain. She chose to take that experience and go on to teach others to offer their sufferings up to God and appreciate all of the things they have. But she didn't choose the suffering itself (except for the choice not to end it with suicide).
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:33 pm
Not all suffering is part of God's will. Some suffering is just part of life. Either way, being a Christian doesn't automatically exempt you from hard times, which is contrary to what the charismatic church I used to attend seems to believe.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:39 pm
You can't tell what is and what isn't, though. Again, I'll go back to the example of my mother. Through her suffering, she was able to teach others important lessons that she wouldn't have without it. Everything is so intricate and in that scope nothing seems random.
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Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:43 pm
lymelady You can't tell what is and what isn't, though. Again, I'll go back to the example of my mother. Through her suffering, she was able to teach others important lessons that she wouldn't have without it. Everything is so intricate and in that scope nothing seems random. Nothing is random. Without God, it's a matter of cause and effect. With God, it is divine and holy. Nothing is random, as you say. Also, the nature of the suffering is irrelevent. Suffering forces us to lean on God; I believe that sometimes God allows suffering for this very reason. You can either choose to grow stronger from it, or to let it embitter you. It's also important to remember that God loves you. He doesn't take joy in watching you writhe in pain. But you glorify him when you suffer well for his sake, and so I'm certain that he will bless you for it.
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:43 am
I agree with you 100%, though I'm not one to suffer well. Suffering can serve a purpose and when you're suffering, it certainly helps to find that purpose.
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:17 am
God calls us to suffer well, trusting in him to carry us through the hard times. It is disobedience to do otherwise, even though we hate to think of it that way.
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:31 am
Getting back to the original bit ... I don't know if that quote is Biblical, or something man made up to sound Biblical.
If it's made up by man ... it's a nice sentiment, but like all sentiments, it can't apply in all circumstances.
If it's directly from the Bible, then I'd certainly like to examine the context. Let's face it, humans have a knack for quoting passages out of context, then building entire religions on them.
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:34 pm
It's a quote from a scottish pastor, and it's the opening statement in C.S. Lewis' The Problem of Pain.
If you want biblical context, read 1 Peter. That book was addressed to a group that was suffering at the time.
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