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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:44 pm


I looked at a few threads and I'm rather confused about how homosexuality is considered something that isn't a sin. =/ It puzzled me indeed. Please don't link me to linaloki thread, I've already read it and spoken to linaloki. He kind of just thought with "WELL YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT COMPUTERS ARE OKAY!?!" and "THAT SCRIPTURE DOESN'T COUNT ANYMORE!" and "THAT WAS ONLY AT THE ROMANS! AND THEY WHERE HAVING ORGIES!"

Anyway...
Rom 1:26-29 I think. Or basically onwards. He claims that was just for the Romans I read and if you read about it, it say all type of wickered men are doing this.

This is pretty much the most straight foward about homosexuality and how it is not good, the greek says that the word for the liking of them is passion or emotion, and in the NT the word is often refeered to as bad, depraved, and vile passion/emotions.

If you choose to discount lev 18:22, and Cor 1:6 and 1 Tim whatever. How can you discount this, it doesn't speak about orgies or anything, it simple talks about homosexuals...

How is it that this can be so ignored in the debates?

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
I in NO way hates homosexuals, many of my friends are in fact either bisexual or homosexual, my God father is homosexual, and his been a bigger father in my life than my own. I have no anger towards them and I don't treat them less of a human in anyway so take this into account before you start with a whole lot of remarks about me being a gay hater.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:11 pm


Repeat thread.

You have 23 happy pages to read through.

PirateEire


Se Ga Takai
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:44 pm


I personally like Linaloki, he has shown himself to think most of his posts out quite well. And if you have an issue with teh whole "We don't follow that anymore", there's a few things I need to ask you;
  • Do you wear clothing made of different fabrics?
  • Do you Worship on Saturday, teh True Sabbath?
  • Do you avoid eating Shellfish, or pork?
  • Have you ever sat in a chair after a Woman sat in it during her menstrual cycle?

No Hypocrisy now, if you're going to call one Levitical Law, you need to follow all of them. As for your verses from Romans, Here's a Wall of Text From Trunks the Slayer. Have fun.
TrunkstheSlayer
Homosexuality in the Bible
- Interview with Dr. Reverend Cheri DiNovo
- What the Bible Says About Homosexuality
- Soulforce: What the Bible Says (.PDF)
- Sexual Orientation Is Not Mentioned In The Bible.
- Disproving The "Smashing Verses"
- Homosexuality and the Bible by Rev. Goss


Ananel


Oh, yes, and on the subject of Scripture. While we're here .... there's that 3 page essay back a while ago. I think it's about time to bring it out. Why, we ask? Because a) I've read the Bible and b) I've learned that the lifestyle isn't wrong.

And as a Christian, I devote my studies and life unto He and His Word, taking them back in accordance with 1 John 4 to the Gospel, testing them against what is already known.

Quote:
We should cover a few things first:
1) I am Christian. No matter what you think of my views below, I am a firm believer in the salvation of Christ and have been for almost all of my life.
2) I believe in the original inerrancy of Holy Scripture. In other words, God divinely inspired the apostles and prophets in the writing of the Bible, His chosen words written through their hand. I don’t feel, however, that this also means that X translation is divinely inspired. What was promised was the original Word of God. We have since kept it as well as possible, though imperfections do occur.
3) I can, though with some difficulty, read Greek and Hebrew. Much of my commentary will use words from the original language, so be prepared for this.

Now, let me summarize this argument, because the argument itself will take pages of material even at its most basic. I will post the details of the argument in future postings if necessary, assuming that I am permitted to continue to do so.

A) The Ceremonial Law of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy no longer applies. Because of what is written in the book of Galatians and Paul’s writings in the second chapter of Colossians, we have clear declarations that the ceremonial law is now in the field of Christian liberty. Paul uses a variety of examples to declare this and lists several portions of the law, following with the declaration that all of it was nailed to the Cross and has been removed. This belief is backed up further by the book of Romans and the speeches at the council of Jerusalem in Acts (Chapter 15), along with selected sayings by Christ concerning ceremonial practice. If we decide to pick and choose portions of the ceremonial law to continue in observance as God’s will without clear relation of those parts to the commandments of God referenced in Romans, James and Revelations, then we place ourselves in danger of the ban of Galatians 1:8.

If this is the case, and most of you will find that your pastors will agree with this, unless you are members of the Seventh-day Adventist or similar denominations, then we have a big problem in the debate of homosexual sex as a sin. The problem is simple: The two clearest declarations of homosexual sex as a sin in the Bible are found in chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus. If the ceremonial law no longer applies, then neither do these.

B) Sodom and Gomorrah do not pertain to homosexual sex, and the same can be said of the related story in Judges. The sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are clearly huge. Have you ever seen a city in your lives where the whole male population tried to batter down doors so that they could gang rape guests to the city? I apologize for being so blunt and almost crude, but the point is not a pleasant one, and neither is the story. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were sinful beyond our understanding. These were foul places where such extreme forms of rape were accepted and where the closest thing to a righteous man offers up his daughters to their lusts. Further, the issue also comes up that this is a story more about the complete lack of hospitality and the brutality of the citizens. It is reading too far into the text to say that this passage says anything about homosexual sex. It is speaking of extreme cases that do not apply to homosexual sex.

(Note: Ezekiel 16 is the passage which refers to the sins of Sodom/Gomorrah)

C) The argument of creation (God created them Adam and Eve, so they are meant to be complimentary) suffers from a massive weakness. In chapter three of Genesis, we are told why a man leaves his father and mother to become one flesh with the woman that he loves. We are told similar things in chapter five of Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. However, neither passage declares that this must be the only thing. Paul also speaks elsewhere of the joys of celibacy. This indicates that marriage is not required. Without proof that homosexual sex is considered a sin, there is no reason to automatically assume that “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” is actually said in Scripture. The passages only say why heterosexual marriages occur, not that they must be the only ones.

In fact, an important point must be made. Scripture speaks clearly about the need to save sex for marriage. If the Bible has not declared homosexual sex or marriage as sinful, then we have done a vast disservice in refusing homosexual couples the right to marriage. We are, in effect, trying to force them into sinful relationships out-of-wedlock.

D) There are three passages that may speak on homosexual sex in the New Testament. Two are lists of sins, found in chapter six of Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians and chapter one of his first letter to Timothy. The third, and most important, passage is found in the first chapter of Paul’s letter to the Romans.

1) The two lists are poorly translated in the cases of homosexuality. Three words are found in these passages that are used to relate to homosexual sex: Pornia, Arsenokoitas and Malakoi. Pornia means pervert. That’s all it really means. It refers to sexual perversion, but makes no statement as to what that perversion is. It is far too general to relate to homosexual sex. Malakoi refers to softness or effeminacy, with implications of perversion. The term is used to refer to a man who is too passionate and emotional, and who acts upon these. It relates to the Grecian concepts of gender identity. The man was not to be emotional in this fashion. If one stretches the meaning of the word, examples are found where Malakoi may refer to the ‘bottom’ partner of pederasty. This is a relationship wherein a teenage boy traded sexual favors with an older man in return for guidance and training. It was common within Greek society and accepted in Roman society. Arsenokoitas is a compound word derived from the Greek words for man and bed. While this sounds like a clear reference to homosexuality to our modern ears, there is a problem. The word does not appear at any point prior to Paul’s letters. To our knowledge, he created the term himself. Its usage in all other cases I am aware of either represents something akin to an aggressive sexual predator or, more commonly, the ‘top’ partner in pederasty. At most these verses could possibly have listed pederasty as a crime, but not homosexual sex alone. You cannot read into the text the fact that, because something condemned includes another thing, that other thing is automatically condemned as well. For example, a person who breaks the commandment about not bearing false testimony against one’s neighbor must communicate to do so. Communication is not condemned, is it? The condemnation of pederasty cannot be clearly related, even in consideration of Jewish morals that Paul is familiar with, to a condemnation of homosexual sex. Look at http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html for further details on the specifics of Arsenokoites and Malakoi.

2) Romans 1:18-32 is the key to the argument. However, there are a series of problems with the classic interpretation of the passage.

One, we rarely take verses 26-27 in context with the rest of the passage. The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God. The godless ones are described as being given over to their passions. This loss of control is key and important to the Greeks and Romans Paul is writing to, and was considered a very bad thing. It is important to realize that the passage is not centered on homosexual relations, no matter how you interpret it.

Two, the relationships are referred to as being unnatural. The term pushin is the Greek word for natural and refers, in general, to that which is according either to socially accepted morals or to one’s innate nature. The society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexual relationships to be quite natural. What would have been considered unnatural to the Romans would specifically have been something where a citizen was ‘on bottom.’ Such a position degrades the citizen’s status and was considered to be a horrible thing.

Three, the shameful lusts that are spoken of are not specifically described. Unlike Leviticus, where they are listed, the passage assumes that its audience knows what is being spoken of. While Paul is a born and trained Jew, familiar with the ceremonial law, he is preaching to newly converted Christians in Rome and Greece. These people, though somewhat familiar with Jewish beliefs, could not have been considered familiar enough to assume that “shameful lusts” meant what is said in Leviticus. Paul is not a man to leave explanations unclear. When necessary, he goes into great detail and repetition to make his point absolutely clear and understood. Therefore, by context it seems he is speaking to the Roman’s understanding of shameful, the subjugation of a citizen for example. Further, pathos (lusts) does not necessitate a sexual connotation.

Four, the fact that we have women doing things with women instead of men and that we have men doing things with men instead of women is clear from what Paul says in verses 26-27. However, Paul does not at any point say what is being done. He lacks the clarity of Leviticus. Any number of things could be occurring, and without a clear indication that the text is specifically speaking of homosexual sex acts on any level we are familiar with today we cannot claim that Romans 1 clearly declares that the ceremonial law still applies in this case.

My arguments are quite basic. This is only an overview of them. I have far more detailed descriptions of the issues involved and will happily offer them. This argument is also not new. You can find websites offering similar interpretations themselves. I came to these conclusions, however, through prayer and consideration with friends, not a website. These positions, also, are hardly universally accepted. There is strong evidence in both directions with regards Romans 1. Some churches still make the claim that parts of the ceremonial law remain intact. There are strong arguments both for and against this.

My single greatest point is this: Can you honestly declare something a sin when you cannot clearly show without serious contention that the Bible declares it to be a sin? When we look at the Ten Commandments, we know basically what they say and don’t argue over them. Christ further explains them during his life, giving us more information about what they mean. We know these things to be sins, and there is little debate. Homosexual sex is found in the ceremonial laws and what few verses speak of it outside of that set of laws are hotly contested. How can we clearly state, based upon these facts, that homosexuality is indeed a sin?











Lev



nygeel13
Analysis of Leviticus 18:22

In transliterated Hebrew, the verse of Lev 18:22 is written: "V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee."

English translations of this verse vary. Some are:

ESV: (English Standard Version): "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is abomination."
KJV: (King James Version): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination".
LB: (Living Bible): "Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin"
NIV: (New International Version) "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
NLT: (New Living Translation): "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
RSV: (Revised Standard Version): "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination .

The LB and NLT translations use the term "homosexuality" That is unusually deceptive for three reasons:

The passage in the ancient Hebrew is clearly talking about male-male sex acts. By using the word "homosexuality," the English translation appears to condemn lesbian activity as well. The latter behavior is definitely not mentioned in the original Hebrew text of this passage. In fact, lesbian behavior is not mentioned anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures.

The term "homosexuality" has two distinct meanings in English. Sometimes it refers to sexual behavior (what some people do). Sometimes it relates to sexual orientation (what some people are). One reader might conclude from an English translation that homosexual orientation is criticized in the Bible; others might assume that homosexual behavior is criticized.

The word "homosexual" was first used in the very late in 19th century CE. There was no Hebrew word that meant "homosexual." Thus, whenever the word is seen in an English translation of the Bible, one should be wary that the translators might be inserting their own prejudices into the text.

Various interpretations of Leviticus 18:22:

Conservative Christian Interpretation: This verse condemns homosexual behavior of all types including consensual sex between two adults and monogamous sexual activity within a committed relationship. Its meaning is clear and unambiguous. This verse is often quoted in Evangelical churches and on religious radio and TV programs.

Liberal Christian Interpretations: Some English translations of this passage condemn both gay and lesbian sexual relationships. This is a mistranslation. It refers only to male-male sexual behavior.

This passage does not refer to gay sex generally, but only to a specific form of homosexual prostitution in Pagan temples. Much of Leviticus deals with the Holiness Code which outlined ways in which the ancient Hebrews were to be set apart to God. Some fertility worship practices found in nearly Pagan cultures were specifically prohibited; ritual same-sex behavior in Pagan temples was one such practice.
The status of women in ancient Hebrew culture was very much lower than that of a man and barely above that of children and slaves. When a man engaged in sexual intercourse with a woman, he always took a dominant position; the woman would take a submissive posture. When two men engage in sexual intercourse, one of the men, in effect, takes the position of a woman. When a man takes on the low status of a woman, the act makes both ritually impure.

Many would regard "abomination," "enormous sin", etc. as particularly poor translations of the original Hebrew word which really means "ritually unclean" within an ancient Israelite era. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (circa 3rd century BCE) translated "to'ebah" into Greek as "bdelygma," which meant ritual impurity. If the writer(s) of Leviticus wished to refer to a moral violation, a sin, he would have used the Hebrew word zimah.

The seriousness of this idolatry in Hebrew eyes was compounded by the belief that 'to lie with a man as with a woman' violated the dignity of the male sex. Women were [considered] property but men were the direct image of God. To treat a man the way a woman was treated was to reduce him to property and, thereby, to violate the image of God. The issue was idolatrous activity which failed to acknowledge God's creation.

This verse says nothing about consensual same-sex activity today.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:54 am


Se Ga Takai Much hatred to me I sense. Mmm..

I said DISCOUNTING lev.

And hey! they where onto something when they said wear pure cotton! Have you had pure cotton! It feels GREAT!

And personally, shellfish and pork are rather gross, and that cermonial law is rebuked by Christ later in the vision to his disciple.

And yeah, I'd try not to sit on a chair when a woman was in her menstrual cycle. That'd be gross. =[ And that was to keep people clean. It's obvious.

ANd yes. I worship on Saturday. But that's no different than anyday. Every day I live a life of whorship to Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Four, the fact that we have women doing things with women instead of men and that we have men doing things with men instead of women is clear from what Paul says in verses 26-27. However, Paul does not at any point say what is being done. He lacks the clarity of Leviticus. Any number of things could be occurring, and without a clear indication that the text is specifically speaking of homosexual sex acts on any level we are familiar with today we cannot claim that Romans 1 clearly declares that the ceremonial law still applies in this case.


I don't agree with that from trunks

I read the greek. It does clearly state what they where doing,
Rom 1:26
Because for this reason, these people, God has given unto them depraved emotion passion. Disgracing them not only but also by woman and woman exchanging the natural sex into this opposing habit.

That my translation with some words to make it less fragmented but it got pretty much all the words used.

The bit bolded is what stood out with me. They exchanged, there normal natural sex. Which is man and woman, which they all knew as being the natural way of thing, natural meaning in nature, and they all knew how animal did it male female, and the word said here was the sexual use of woman, for the word, for the opposing habit. Which I thought was a good definition.

I rather not get into a big debate about it. But look, I read the greek myself (thank you for such advice Pirate)

Type Text Here


Se Ga Takai
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:26 am


Type Text Here
Every day I live a life of whorship to Jesus Christ.
This is why proper spelling and Grammar is a must in discussion. You DO realise you just called yourself Christs little Whore, right? That may be Blasphemous confused
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:38 am


Type Text Here
I read the greek. It does clearly state what they where doing,
Rom 1:26
Because for this reason, these people, God has given unto them depraved emotion passion. Disgracing them not only but also by woman and woman exchanging the natural sex into this opposing habit.

That my translation with some words to make it less fragmented but it got pretty much all the words used.

The bit bolded is what stood out with me. They exchanged, there normal natural sex. Which is man and woman, which they all knew as being the natural way of thing, natural meaning in nature, and they all knew how animal did it male female, and the word said here was the sexual use of woman, for the word, for the opposing habit. Which I thought was a good definition.

I rather not get into a big debate about it. But look, I read the greek myself (thank you for such advice Pirate)
I also have the Greek, I read the Greek for all of these, it doesn't say sex. It leaves it completely open. I mean, how ignorant do you have to be?! They were playing D&D, I mean, c'mon. How could you miss that rolleyes

Se Ga Takai
Crew


Se Ga Takai
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:44 am


Type Text Here
Se Ga Takai Much hatred to me I sense. Mmm..
You complain about people ignoring your posts, and then ignore my replies to yours. You complain about people being overtly rude to you, and then you b***h out my fiancé and call her a heretic, simply for the fact that you can't understand what she's getting at. I can't read half of your posts, you're ignoring half of the New Testament, and all around, I've been denying a few requests to ban you. In respect for Rowena, I'll leave that final decision to her. but is it in the slightest bit out of the ordinary that I wouldn't like you? Hate, no, I refuse that emotion. The moment I hate somebody is the moment I've reduced myself to the Hypocrites, I will not hate.

Strongly dislike, in the Dissaprove of the way you're treating my future Wife? I'm allowed.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:12 pm


As Pirate said, 23 happy pages are there for you to read, just click her link.

Taralanthalasa


PirateEire

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:51 pm


Type Text Here
I read the greek. It does clearly state what they where doing,
Rom 1:26
Because for this reason, these people, God has given unto them depraved emotion passion. Disgracing them not only but also by woman and woman exchanging the natural sex into this opposing habit.

That my translation with some words to make it less fragmented but it got pretty much all the words used.
Oops, someone's not understanding Greek here.

Phusin. "Nature." One's innate nature or habit, as your translation says. This means that those "sinners" sinned by having sex with other men while it was against their innate nature--meaning, said people were straight, but had gay sex anyway.

Now unless you want to try to convince me that there's no such thing as a homosexual--only lust-filled heterosexuals, gay people having gay sex t'aint a sin.

Then there's the whole issue of you attempting to equate "homosexuality" with "gay sex." Got anything in the Bible where it says it is a sin to love someone (emotionally) of the same gender?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:50 pm


Se Ga Takai
Type Text Here
I read the greek. It does clearly state what they where doing,
Rom 1:26
Because for this reason, these people, God has given unto them depraved emotion passion. Disgracing them not only but also by woman and woman exchanging the natural sex into this opposing habit.

That my translation with some words to make it less fragmented but it got pretty much all the words used.

The bit bolded is what stood out with me. They exchanged, there normal natural sex. Which is man and woman, which they all knew as being the natural way of thing, natural meaning in nature, and they all knew how animal did it male female, and the word said here was the sexual use of woman, for the word, for the opposing habit. Which I thought was a good definition.

I rather not get into a big debate about it. But look, I read the greek myself (thank you for such advice Pirate)
I also have the Greek, I read the Greek for all of these, it doesn't say sex. It leaves it completely open. I mean, how ignorant do you have to be?! They were playing D&D, I mean, c'mon. How could you miss that rolleyes

The translation for one of the words.. I'll get it in fact.

{khray'-sis}
of the sexual use of a woman
{sex}

That one. That seems pretty closed to me. The sexual use of woman is the reason people get married and fall in love, hetrosexual men don't fall in love with men in the way they fall in love for woman, just as homosexual woman don't fall in love with males as they fall in love with woman. Therefore this emcompasses basially love it would seem and sex.

Type Text Here


Type Text Here

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:58 pm


Se Ga Takai
Type Text Here
Se Ga Takai Much hatred to me I sense. Mmm..
You complain about people ignoring your posts, and then ignore my replies to yours. You complain about people being overtly rude to you, and then you b***h out my fiancé and call her a heretic, simply for the fact that you can't understand what she's getting at. I can't read half of your posts, you're ignoring half of the New Testament, and all around, I've been denying a few requests to ban you. In respect for Rowena, I'll leave that final decision to her. but is it in the slightest bit out of the ordinary that I wouldn't like you? Hate, no, I refuse that emotion. The moment I hate somebody is the moment I've reduced myself to the Hypocrites, I will not hate.

Strongly dislike, in the Dissaprove of the way you're treating my future Wife? I'm allowed.

Luke 6:37

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:59 pm


Type Text Here
That one. That seems pretty closed to me. The sexual use of woman is the reason people get married and fall in love, hetrosexual men don't fall in love with men in the way they fall in love for woman, just as homosexual woman don't fall in love with males as they fall in love with woman. Therefore this emcompasses basially love it would seem and sex.
How?

Strawman.

Marriage =/= for sex =/= love.

It specifically speaks of sex, not love. You said so yourself, after all.

That aside, do you understand phusin now? The only sin I'm committing in this regard is sex out of wedlock (because my country won't let me marry my partner), as I am a homosexual (well, pansexual... SPECIFICS, SPECIFICS...) who has homosexual sex.

PirateEire


Type Text Here

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:03 pm


PirateEire
Type Text Here
I read the greek. It does clearly state what they where doing,
Rom 1:26
Because for this reason, these people, God has given unto them depraved emotion passion. Disgracing them not only but also by woman and woman exchanging the natural sex into this opposing habit.

That my translation with some words to make it less fragmented but it got pretty much all the words used.
Oops, someone's not understanding Greek here.

Phusin. "Nature." One's innate nature or habit, as your translation says. This means that those "sinners" sinned by having sex with other men while it was against their innate nature--meaning, said people were straight, but had gay sex anyway.

Now unless you want to try to convince me that there's no such thing as a homosexual--only lust-filled heterosexuals, gay people having gay sex t'aint a sin.

Then there's the whole issue of you attempting to equate "homosexuality" with "gay sex." Got anything in the Bible where it says it is a sin to love someone (emotionally) of the same gender?


{foo-see-kos'}
1) produced by nature, inborn 2) agreeable to nature 3) governed by (the instincts of) nature
{natural}

That word. But God inborn everyone with hetrosexuality. Thus Adam and Eve. I just think it strange how a minority of things, are, homosexual, and more so in humanity, I think that it is to do with how the mind thinks pirate, and I think that it's a defect. (Understand I'm NOT saying that homosexuality is a disease) but I mean, medically speaking, homosexuality is a enemoly right? This sounds rude. But I'm speaking medically. Which you can't really do for people feelings.

Well path'-os also means
a feeling which the mind suffers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:08 pm


Taralanthalasa
As Pirate said, 23 happy pages are there for you to read, just click her link.

I guess. But will it hurt to have this one? I mean, there not many other actives topic here, that why I made this one.

Type Text Here


Type Text Here

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:13 pm


PirateEire
Type Text Here
That one. That seems pretty closed to me. The sexual use of woman is the reason people get married and fall in love, hetrosexual men don't fall in love with men in the way they fall in love for woman, just as homosexual woman don't fall in love with males as they fall in love with woman. Therefore this emcompasses basially love it would seem and sex.
How?

Strawman.

Marriage =/= for sex =/= love.

It specifically speaks of sex, not love. You said so yourself, after all.

That aside, do you understand phusin now? The only sin I'm committing in this regard is sex out of wedlock (because my country won't let me marry my partner), as I am a homosexual (well, pansexual... SPECIFICS, SPECIFICS...) who has homosexual sex.

HAHAHAHAH POST MODERN SEXUAL!!!! COOL!!!! XD Sorry I found out about this, I claim if I'm going to be gay it's going to be a lesbian frog X3 Sorry this isn't offensive just never meet a real pansexual and I was starting to question how common it was. But I guess it rather commmon encompassing most drag queens.

Straw men?

Anyway I covered the rest of what you said later post.
Reply
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